Tips & Suggestions

topic posted Tue, December 30, 2003 - 12:54 PM by  Josh
I've heard about the pro's about dvorak (faster?, comfort), but what are some of the con's with using dvorak that you've experienced, besides compatibility with QWERTY?

Second, any tips and/or suggestions on where/when/how to get started with dvorak? Did you have luck just diving into dvorak and quitting QWERTY cold turky? Know of any good free training software?

Thanks!
posted by:
Josh
  • Re: Tips & Suggestions

    Wed, December 31, 2003 - 4:49 AM
    I never used training software. I was a 70wpm QWERTY typist when I switched at age 15. The best way to switch is to find a hard-wire switched board with Dvorak printed on the keycaps (like those formerly available from the now-defunct dvortyboards.com). Force yourself to use it for eight hours a day (take it to work if that's where you're at most), sacrificing the speed for a while. It took me about 16 days to surpass my old speed. I can now type 120wpm with no errors, and it feels terriffic!

    Yes, the only drawback is that when you have to use a computer that's not yours, you're back where you started. For a while I was "bilingual," so to speak. But now, I can't touch type QWERTY any more without looking at the keys. Still, most OSes will allow you to software switch the layout in seconds. So if I'm going to be at a foreign machine for longer than a few minutes, I switch it (like in a lab).
    • Re: Tips & Suggestions

      Fri, January 9, 2004 - 6:01 AM
      I wouldn't suggest using the keycap switching. The only reason to have labeled keys on your keyboard is to be able to look at the keys. If you get in the habit of doing this, you'll never learn to touch-type properly. I had never learned to type qwerty properly, so a lot of my motivation for switching to dvorak was to learn it right this time, since I was stuck in my old bad habits with qwerty.

      What I did was to write down the keyboard layout on the back of a business card, and tape it to the bottom of the monitor. If I couldn't remember where a certain key was, I could find it on the card, and then look at the letters aronud it for one whose location I could remember, and figure it out from there.

      For the first day or two, my typing was a bit excrutiating (especially using vi), but once I got the hang of it, it was a breeze.

      I now type exclusively on qwerty-labeled keyboards, as well, since I type even worse qwerty than I used to, so I have to resort to looking at the keys when I'm in the bios or anywhere else where the layout cannot be easily switched.

      This approach also helped me adjust better when I later learned to type on a twiddler.
      • Re: Tips & Suggestions

        Fri, January 9, 2004 - 8:25 PM
        This closly matches my experiances with learning dvorak. I never quite managed to type qwerty without looking at the keys. I actually knew where the keys were, but something in my brain clicked into super-doubt mode if I wasn't actually looking at the keys.

        I only ever used software methods for changing the keyboard layouts. I dived in head first, switched on the dvorak layout, and kept it that way. I taped a print out of the dvorak layout to the edge of my monitor, and found keys I didn't know based or where they were in relation to the home row. It was slow at first, but got faster purely through force of use.

        A strange side effect of using this method was that for a good while I could switch between typing dvorak and qwerty purely based on whether I was looking at the screen or the keyboard.
        It's been so long now since I've really used a qwetry layout that I can't still use this trick, but it was certainly interesting. On the other hand I've now used dvorak enough that on the rare occation when one hand is busy, I've found I can mostly hunt-n-peck on a dvorak board, even without matching keycaps.

        Another weird side effect I ran into had to do with the number row. Most of the standard dvorak layouts I've run across leave the number row the same as it is on a qwerty layout. As a result, this was one area that I never quite learned not to look at the keys. One day I noticed that the original dvorak proposal had remapped the number keys as well, placing the most common digits under the strongest fingers (much along the same theory as the rest of the dvorak system). This essentialy has the numbers counting outward from the index fingers toward the pinkies, with the odd digits on one hand and the evens on the other. (see the picture in the tribe photo section to see what I mean.) So I setup a keymap that used the original number layout and started using it. Of course it cured me of looking at my hands for these few remaining keys, but it also gave me a point of comparison for when people ask me how hard it was to learn dvorak. When I was originally learning dvorak, I didn't really pay attention to how long it took me to get to the same typing speed as I had before. (though I eventually I surpassed that speed, probably partly due to not having to look at my hands.)
        Anyway, I was in a position of re-learning a portion of the keyboard while having the rest of the keyboard as a comparison point. It took me about 3 weeks before my number typing skill caught up with the rest of my typing.
        Now of course this is a limited test, and learning an entire keymap would surely take longer than re-learning just 10 keys. I also have a computer job, and use a keyboard no less that 40 hours a week, and typically more. I hope that even with these caveats, the data is useful.

        Anyway, I now use dvorak nearly exclusively (with the only exception being when I use someone elses computer). I fully agree with the idea that the best way to learn is to just dive right in, don't change the key caps, and have patience early on when it's slow going.

        Good luck!
        • Re: Tips & Suggestions

          Sat, January 10, 2004 - 12:37 PM
          Interesting, I've never tried switching the number keys, but I suspect that I would just confuse myself when I'm using a different computer, and switch it to the standard dvorak layout in the OS. I've actually cured myself of looking at the number keys by primarily using the numeric keypad for number work. You have to move your hands, though, so I tend to be more prone to type out the word for a number than to use the character.

          Also, for anyone that absolutely must have a dvorak keycapped keyboard, I highly recommend getting an IBM model M. The keycaps all have the same curvature, and are very easy to remove, so you don't have to have a "bumpy" keyboard (try switching the keys on a modern keyboard, and you'll see what I mean). The only problem is that you'll need to file down the bumps on the f and k, then put a large scratch or a dab of glue onto the u and h keys, for a tactile indication of your homerow.
          • Re: Tips & Suggestions

            Sat, January 10, 2004 - 12:44 PM
            I rearranged the caps on my iBook. The F/J -> U/H homerow indicators are my only real problem there. Also, the little Fn key'd numpad is all scattered out, but I don't really care about that. I thought about filing off the old homerow indicators and creating new ones appropriately, but I'm afraid I'd screw that up too badly. So I live with it.
      • Re: Tips & Suggestions

        Sun, January 11, 2004 - 6:13 PM
        ::update::

        I've been on dvorak for less than 2 weeks now, and my speed is steadily improving.

        I've actually been using the model M keyboard as well Ben and I was very happy with how well it converts over to dvorak after seeing others switch theirs. I decided to change the keys not because I have to look at them when I type, but because of the shortcut issues. ctrl-c and ctrl-v aren't as easy anymore.

        My sole suggestion, apart from what is already here is to find some software that teaches dvorak, sit down with it and learn all of the keys at once. Do not switch back and forth between qwerty and dvorak at all, cold turkey is good.

        I used the KP Typing Tutor (www.fonlow.com/zijianhuang/kp/) which i was happy with.
        A friend really liked Ten Thumbs (www.runrev.com/tenthumbs/index.shtml) which is non-free, or requires cracking.

        Thats all! Thanks everyone for you insight and tips for the transition.
        • Right on!

          Mon, January 12, 2004 - 4:03 AM
          And with that the Dvorak tribe effected some good in the world and was validated by reports of its success.
        • Re: Tips & Suggestions

          Wed, January 14, 2004 - 6:41 AM
          Yeah, the Ctrl-xcv issue is probably the single biggest drawback of dvorak. I've trained my hands to go to the right places, but for a while I had to think of it as "Ctrl-b", "Ctrl-i", and "Ctrl-.". They're still awkwardly far apart, though. I tend to find myself favoring the mouse and context menu a bit more in a gui environment as a result.

          Of course, vi is another whole can of worms. The adjustment period for me was a bit rough, but the brain eventually maps out sort of a translation, and the shortcut key positions come naturally. The only real casualty there is the hjkl navigation, which I haven't quite gotten the hang yet (they're actually still in vagualy sensible positions), and tend to use the cursor keys more than I used to.

          All in all, though, the extra typing speed and ergonomic benefits are well worth the drawbacks. When I try to type qwerty now, it's actually painful.
          • Ctrl+[X|C|V]

            Wed, January 14, 2004 - 7:19 AM
            You should use instead:
            CTRL+INS - copy to clipboard
            SHIFT+INS - paste from clipboard

            These keys are handled by the OS and are therefore available to every application and always work. The C/V thing is merely a convention. While it works a lot of places, it isn't universal. Using the system-wide keys will also clear up the issue of XCV being in a row on QWERTY but not in Dvorak.
          • Re: Tips & Suggestions

            Sat, February 5, 2005 - 6:51 PM
            The control (option, meta, etc) shifted portion of the keymap can be shifted as well. The mac does this automatically, but you can whip up your own shiftmaps for other unixes and Windows.

            And CTRL-C may be only a 'sometimes' convention in windows, but it's completely consistent on the mac. Not to start that war; just saying. On some keyboards, INS is handled as CAPS is -- a software toggle -- that can be very annoying to try to muck with.
      • Re: Tips & Suggestions

        Sat, February 5, 2005 - 6:48 PM
        Hear, hear. Looking at the keys is another good habit to drop while you're kicking qwerty.

        I popped up the visual keyboard on the screen while I was learning (and I did get a touch typing tutor - ten thumbs, perhaps? One that 'knew' dvorak -- that's important.) It's pleasant to watch the dvorak words like 'the' and 'there' that ripple across the home row so brilliantly, too. The visual feedback provided by generating a 'smooth' pattern was if not useful at least pretty.

        I tried to remove all letters/numbers from the keyboard, but they're hard to remove. I was going to replace the keys on my next powerbook with completely blank ones, and then Apple had to go and put this gorgeous fiber-optic light-up keyboard on here. . . .

        BTW, I don't think QWERTY compatibility is an issue at all. Every major OS comes with both, software switchable, nowadays anyway.

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